Heather Reisman:
Hi, I’m Heather Reisman, and this is Well Said, a podcast on the art and science of
living well.
This podcast is brought to you by Indigo. Today’s episode is hosted by Shivani Persad, a wonderfully
curious journalist and a fellow booklover.
Jay Shetty:
Your breath is connected to every emotion. So when you learn how to master your breath, you learn
how to navigate life.
Shivani Persad:
That’s Jay Shetty, an author, host of the podcast On Purpose, and a former monk.
Through his
social
media community, Jay
is on a mission to make wisdom go viral. Living in a world that can sometimes feel chaotic, that
sounds like a pretty
good idea. In his book, Think Like a Monk, he takes readers through lessons he learned
along
the way
and weaves in
ancient wisdom on how to clear out negativity and create a life that’s full of purpose. Jay, welcome
to Well Said, and
thank you so much for being with us today.
Jay Shetty:
Thank you so much for having me. And it’s so nice to connect with you, Shivani. I’m really looking
forward to this
conversation.
Shivani Persad:
So, what do you think people would find the most surprising about life as a monk?
Jay Shetty:
The thing that people would find the most surprising is that monks have a sense of humour, and that
monks do laugh, and
they are normal people, and that they have normal thoughts and normal challenges, like all of us.
But the humour part is
really important. I remember having so many days and nights where we would laugh together about the
mind, and deep and
profound topics, as well as how bad people’s snoring sound was. It was so easy to just laugh and let
go about so many
things in the monastery. So yes, that’s probably one of the most surprising things.
Shivani Persad:
So Jay, what does a monastic life look like?
Jay Shetty:
Yes. So, what it looks like is you live communally; so you share space. Now, if you were in a room
which slept, say, 10
people, sometimes 20 people, whichever room it is, no space is yours on the floor. So your space
changes every night.
You have a mat on the floor with a little sheet or a little covering, or sometimes a sleeping bag in
the winter when it
gets a little cold. You wake up at 4:00 a.m. every day. You’re meditating from between four to eight
hours on any given
day, depending on what that day looks like. All your possessions fit into a gym locker. So if you
imagine that
everything you own. And generally you have two sets of clothes: one that you wear, one that you
wash. And so it’s very
easy to decide what to wear in the morning, because everything looks the same. And it’s a life
that’s really dedicated
to two things. One is a life of self: self-mastery, understanding your mind, understanding how you
work. And the other
is service: how you make an impact on the lives of others. And so it’s perfectly balanced between
these two pursuits of
self-mastery and service.
Shivani Persad:
How have you incorporated these teachings into your life on a day-to-day basis? And what do your
days look like now?
Jay Shetty:
Yes. That’s such a great question. So, some of these principles are living in my life today very
practically. So they’re
almost like that’s what we did, we do the same thing today. Some of these principles are now lived
more mentally;
they’ve now become a mindset and an approach to life. And that’s why the book’s called Think
Like A
Monk not Live Like a
Monk, because I want people to understand that we can actually practice some of these mindsets
without big lifestyle
changes.
So, I’ll tell you about some of the stuff that has stayed the same. So, when we woke up in the
morning, we would wake up
at 4:00 a.m. That hasn’t stayed the same; I wake up at about 6:00 a.m. But I still start my day off
with meditation.
Meditation is the first practice that I do of the day. And I meditate for a total of two hours every
single day. Another
thing that’s really, really stayed the same is the idea of trying to have limited noise in my life.
So when we were
monks we never watched the news. We didn’t watch TV shows. We didn’t watch movies. Now of course I
talk a lot about my
passion for movies today. But I try and reduce how much noise and negativity I allow into my morning
especially and the
mood in which I start the day.
In terms of mindsets that have stayed, the idea of detaching from space has given me this renewed
mindset of I can wake
up at my parents’ home in London, I can wake up in the ashram in India where I still visit, or I can
wake up in my
bedroom, or I can wake up in a hotel bedroom when I’m travelling, and I don’t feel any different. I
feel like my life is
exactly the same. So it’s … that’s more of a trained mindset that stayed with me as time has gone
on. And the part of
service hasn’t left me. I still look at all of my actions and activities in the day as service. I
still look at the work
I do as purpose-based, not business-based. Or even though I am an entrepreneur, I still see my
entrepreneurship as an
extension of my service. So, as I said, some of the things are more practical, some of the things
are still mindset.
Oh, I want to share one more. So, I often talk about this one because I really enjoy fashion, but I
talk about how in my
wardrobe I have lots of things that are pretty much exactly the same just in every different colour.
So I have tons of
the same tops that fit the same way, in different colours; I have tons of the same jackets, in
different colours. So in
some sense I’ve tried to maintain that uniform-like approach to getting ready in the morning—to
simplify it. And of
course, there’s deep scientific reasons, as well as monk reasons, as to why we live that way.
Simplifying what you wear,
what you eat. And when people hear that “simplifying,” they think, “Oh, I have to wear simple
clothes” or “I have to
wear the same thing every day.” That’s not the point. The point is that you want to remove difficult
or insignificant
decisions in the beginning of the day, and so making them the night before. Making them a week
before. Planning in
advance. All of those things are just great ways of not having decision-fatigue in the morning. So
most of us, by the
time we’re at work, we’re already tired of deciding, “What do I want to wear for … ah, have for
breakfast?” “What do I
want to wear?” “What am I going to do today?” And by the time we get to our first meeting we’re
already exhausted. So I
think some of these practices allow us to avoid decision-fatigue.
Shivani Persad:
When we think about simplifying our morning, to a lot of people, meditating for an hour or two hours
is not simple to do
in the morning. So you know, you describe in the book it takes years to practice mindfulness and
meditation, but are you
able to walk us through the basics of how to breathe?
Jay Shetty:
Yes, absolutely. And I like what you said about … You know, I don’t recommend anyone starts at an
hour. I certainly
didn’t. I started with 10 minutes a day. And I talk in the book about how there are four habits that
made up my morning
routine as a monk. And those are a morning routine that has stayed today. There’s four habits, and I
recommend everyone
does them for at least 5 minutes each, then raise it to 10 minutes each, and then 15 minutes each.
And so the four
habits are: thankfulness, inspiration, meditation, and exercise. So it comes in the form of an
acronym: time, T-I-M-E.
So thankfulness is truly the best quality to wake up with, because you’re fully grounded in
gratitude. And you know,
studies show that 80 per cent of us wake up in the morning and the first thing we see is our phones.
And if you think
about waking up to your phone, you’re waking up to notifications, negativity, news, and noise.
Whereas, when you replace
that for a grateful thought. And so what I have is I have this Post-it Note that I’ve stuck next to
my bedside table,
and on it, it says, “What are you grateful for?” So every morning when I reach for my phone that’s
the first thing I
see, and it allows me to take a breath and take a moment to remember what I’m grateful for. And I
promise you, if you do
this in the morning, your day will just start off on a different front.
“I” stands for “Inspiration.” I think a lot of us wake up every day, or we’re at work, and we say,
“Oh, I don’t feel
motivated today” or “I don’t feel inspired today” or “I don’t feel like I’m growing today.” And the
truth is that if
you woke up and felt hungry, you’d eat. If you woke up and you didn’t smell good, you’d shower. And
so if you wake up
and you don’t feel motivated, you go get motivated; you go and fuel yourself with inspiration.
The third is Meditation, so talking how to breathe. Ah, I was introduced to a breathing practice,
which today in the
modern world is known as diaphragmatic breathing. And the first time you do it, you’ll realize how
none of us have been
trained to breathe. And the most amazing thing about breath is that athletes are trained to breathe;
musicians are
trained to breathe. And I believe that each and every single one of us, in our own way, are like…
we’re like singers,
we’re like musicians, we’re like athletes; we’re using our body, our minds, our voices to do
different things. Now you
may say, “Jay, I work in an office all day. Well, not anymore, I work from home all day. How does
that make sense for
me?” Because you’re still using your body. And so, talking about breathing, I’m going to ask you,
and everyone who is
listening, to place their left palm on their stomach. And what you’re going to do, in a moment, is
as you breathe in
you’re going to feel your stomach come out. I know it’s not flattering, but go with me here. When
you breathe in,
you’re going to feel your stomach go out. And you’re going to breathe out through your mouth and
feel your stomach go
in. So breathe in through your nose and feel your stomach go out; and breathe out through your mouth
and feel your
stomach go in. Once more: breathe in through your nose and feel your stomach go out; and breathe out
through your mouth
and feel your stomach go in. How… how did that feel for you, Shivani? And be honest about it. It
could have felt
terrible, and that’s OK.
Shivani Persad:
It’s quite relaxing, considering, you know, sometimes we’re just running around really
scatterbrained but also … it
gives you something to focus on when you’re breathing—which is nice, because we can daydream a lot.
Jay Shetty:
(laughs)
Shivani Persad:
So yes, definitely helpful.
Jay Shetty:
Yes. And holding your stomach and feeling your stomach change is really where I’m making it
tangible. And… and breath is
so powerful because, as I talk about in the book, I speak to a little Monk that I guessed was around
10 years old. And
he said something really profound to me which I extended towards this thought that, you know, breath
is connected to
every emotion in our life. When you’re crying, your breathing changes. When you are ecstatic and
happy, your breathing
changes. When you’re running late for a meeting, your breathing changes. When you’re about to go
onstage in front of
thousands of people, your breathing changes. Like, your breath is connected to every emotion. So
when you learn how to
master your breath, you learn how to navigate life. And that’s so important that we don’t forget
that something as
simple as breathing has such a profound impact on how we feel.
[music]
Shivani Persad:
In the chapter on relationships, you mention that when you came back to London, after leaving the
ashram, you found that
you had gotten better at relationships. And right now everyone is so isolated. What can we do in
this time, when we’re
forced to be apart, to make sure that our connections are even stronger when we come back together?
Jay Shetty:
One of the things that I learned in the ashram—which I never … I don’t think we were taught this
intentionally, I think
it is something that we learned along the way—is you built much more powerful relationships when you
grew together. And
what I mean by that is a lot of the time today we think about just talking to each other. So we’re
like, oh yes, let’s
just … I’ll call someone up and I’ll just talk to them and ask them how they are. We’ll probably
throw around some small
talk. We’ll probably be sad about something that happened on the news. We’ll maybe complain a little
about someone that
we know. And then we’ll put the phone down. And no one really walks away from a conversation like
that feeling like
excited and energized. You usually walk away thinking, “All right. OK. At least I spoke to someone.”
And so the idea of doing something where you grow together. Like if you and your friend are taking a
class together
online, and you take the class together and then you discuss it. If you and your friend are doing a
virtual workout
together. If you and your friend are playing a game together that you then discuss. If you and your
friend are bonding
over a course or a program that you’re going to. Whatever it may be, the idea is that when we’re
growing together, our
relationship grows as well. But when we’re just statically, stagnantly just connecting with the
level we’re currently
at, none of us are feeling any growth. So to really build … I find that the best friends I have are
the people I went
through pain with, are the people I grew with, are the people that we took on a challenge together
with. Like people are
closer when they run a marathon together. People are closer when they travel together. People are
closer when they solve
something together.
Shivani Persad:
You talk about in the book how monks are pretty much technology-free. But now your platform depends
a lot on social
media and podcasting, so how do you square that?
Jay Shetty:
Yes, it’s been an interesting thing for me, where I’ve just had to draw really clear boundaries on
my social media
usage. So I made a commitment that I wouldn’t look at my phone until I finished meditating in the
morning. And I’m
guilty, I’ve broken that several times as well. So I mess up all the time. Ah, but I tried to at
least set that as a
boundary, that I will look at my phone when I go to the gym. So that’s about 8:00 a.m. every day; so
I won’t look at it
before that. And I also try to make a commitment that I won’t be on social media after I finish my
workday. And so, for
me, I think I’ve just set really clear boundaries and guidelines. And when someone says to set a
boundary, you can only
set a boundary if you know what value you’re setting it around. And that’s why knowing your values
is so important,
because it helps you make better choices about the people, the projects, and the places you want in
your life. That’s
the biggest takeaway I’ve learned is: what are you going there for? If you find yourself on your
phone and you ask
yourself, “Why am I here?” and you don’t know why, put it down.
Shivani Persad:
Right. Because, in many ways, if you don’t do that, it can turn into a situation where you’re
comparing yourself, and
all these negative sort of things can come out of it—when really social media can be a tool for good
if you go about it
with purpose.
Jay Shetty:
Yes, absolutely. And that’s with anything, right? Like anything can bring you down. And I always
describe it as we
either idolize or demonize things. So we idolize social media, or we demonize it. And monks try to
neutralize
everything. So monks go, “This is not good or bad. It just depends on how I use it.” And you
approach it with that
understanding.
Shivani Persad:
One thing I really enjoy that you do in the book is that you make it very clear that things are not
necessarily
black-and-white. And so counterintuitively, you say that uncomfortable and unpleasant situations can
teach us something.
What are the greater lessons we learn from physical or emotional pain?
Jay Shetty:
I think one of the biggest things to realize is just no matter who you are, no matter how much money
you have, no matter
how successful you are, no matter how many followers you have, pain and suffering and challenges are
something no one in
the world can avoid. And that’s what unpleasant and uncomfortable situations teach us, is that let’s
not try and stop
having uncomfortable and unpleasant situations. That you can’t actually stop them forever; that’s
not possible. And it’s
actually our obsession of trying to stop them is what makes them so painful in our lives. And so
what do you do?
What you do is you change an unhealthy fear into a healthy fear. So if you have an unhealthy fear
of, like, “I don’t
know when I’m going to see my family again,” turn it into a healthy fear of, “I want to call them up
and tell them I
love them every day.” Right? Like try and transform or upgrade the unhealthy discomfort into a
positive discomfort.
There are some challenges that we can’t control and we can’t have an impact on, and those are the
ones where you start
learning that the best thing you can do is train your muscle. So when things are bad, work hard; but
when things are
good, work harder. And I think usually we do the opposite: when things are good, we get complacent.
But it’s in those
times that we need to realize that we need to train the muscle more—strengthen it—so that when a
challenge comes our way
we feel stronger.
[music]
Shivani Persad:
And so before we end each episode, we like to ask our guests a few short questions.
Jay Shetty:
Let’s do it.
Shivani Persad:
What book changed your life?
Jay Shetty:
Oh, I’ve got so many. I’d say my favourite one, probably—apart from The Bhagavad Gita,
which
is
obvious—is, ah,
Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman. It’s unbelievable to really understand the
mind
and how
it works. I love
that book.
Shivani Persad:
And what are you reading now?
Jay Shetty:
Good question. I’ve been reading a few things right now. I was reading a book called Measure
What
Matters. Ah, it’s all
about measuring things inside of an organization and a business. As I said, my entrepreneurial
career is a big focus for
me, and I love learning and trying to get things as right as I can. So I’ve been reading that book,
Measure What
Matters.
Shivani Persad:
And what brings you joy?
Jay Shetty:
If I’m completely honest, you know, the work that I get to do every day does fill me with tons of
joy. I’m obsessed with
it. I love it. I’m grateful to everyone who watches, listens, and is part of the community. I really
do get joy from it.
But, ah, I also get joy from= seeing people change their life based on some of these habits and
ideas. And so when I get
a review, or I see a message, or I see someone post something and it’s a positive change they’ve had
in their life, it
fills me with joy.
Shivani Persad:
And my very last question, because this podcast is really about living well, what does purposeful
living mean to you?
Jay Shetty:
Purposeful living means to me to use your talents and gifts in the service of others. Everyone has a
talent, everyone
has a gift. And you just have to use that to help other people and your life will be sublime.
Shivani Persad:
That was such a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much, Jay. It was awesome having you.
Jay Shetty:
Thanks, Shivani. Those were fantastic questions.
[music]
Shivani Persad:
Thank you for tuning in to our conversation with Jay Shetty. For more ideas to help you live well,
including Jay’s book,
Think Like a Monk, visit indigo.ca/podcast. You can also visit Indigo’s new Wellness
shop,
in-store
or online, and enjoy
in-store pickup in as little as three hours. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us rating on
Apple Podcasts. You
can subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. Well Said was produced for Indigo
Inc. by
Vocal
Fry Studios and is
co-hosted by me, Shivani Persad.
[music]
The information provided in this podcast should not be relied upon by our listeners as medical
advice, even where it has
been presented by physicians or medical practitioners. Any information presented in this podcast is
not, nor is it
intended to be, a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The views
expressed throughout
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